Worst. Run. Evar.

Discuss general aspects of game play, such as quests, content, items etc.

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jupider
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Worst. Run. Evar.

Unread post by jupider » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:00 am

I hate being the complainer, but something needs to be done about
Spoiler:
keycard drop rates.
So here's a rundown of my latest run after resetting:
Step 1- Eat 3 Artery Hardeners, 3 Dixon Cider Spiders and regular spider.
Step 2- Complete the tutorial.
Spoiler:
Step 3- Work through the Ants in the Park quest, still having 180ish turns left when done.
Spoiler:
Step 4- Begin the Legion quest, but run out of turns getting only ONE keycard
Step 5- Wait until after Intermission
Step 6- Repeat step 1
Spoiler:
Step 7- Continue Legion quest, getting only TWO MORE keycards! That's over 200 turns to accomplish one simple thing!! I felt like I was playing SSW!!
Step 8- Repeat step 5

That's where I'm at right now. So here's my suggestion: Instead of just relying on the RNG alone,
Spoiler:
perhaps a side-quest in the department that doesn't contain a keycard (Trigonopolymonomathopathology Lab) can somehow increase or even guarantee the chances of getting the keycard in the other areas, with the whole point being to not make it take several intermissions to complete the quest.
Let me know your opinion(s) about this.
Gobberwart wrote:Jupider is EXACTLY right.
"In the time of war, we would never have left a man stranded."
"Maybe that's why we lost."

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Re: Worst. Run. Evar.

Unread post by Gobberwart » Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:25 pm

So, wait, introduce a different thing that you need RNG for in order to make the RNG less important for something else? Are you sure about that?

I know that what you've experienced here is exceptionally bad RNG, but, as you can see from the leaderboards, it's not normal and, in general, nothing special is required to complete everything within a single "day".

What I could perhaps do is implement some arbitrary "limit" on how long any given thing "should" take, and make obtaining a required item significantly more likely after this limit is reached, but that's a can of worms I'm not sure I want to open, since this is somewhat subjective.

Anyone else have any thoughts (please be mindful of spoilers)?
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heliosa10
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Re: Worst. Run. Evar.

Unread post by heliosa10 » Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:36 pm

Maybe you could have certain actions that make it easier to collect the
Spoiler:
cards
. It would be up to you to implement it in a way you like though.

EDIT: Spoiler tags added. Gobb.

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Re: Worst. Run. Evar.

Unread post by Grokly » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:53 pm

I agree that this was phenomenally bad random luck, but I'd advise against any changes without a much larger sampling of data. As Gobb points out, this is not the norm. How about some input from Reenix? I know that he has become adept at multiple single-day runs. What say you, Reenix?
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Re: Worst. Run. Evar.

Unread post by jupider » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:17 pm

I must admit, this topic was mostly just created out of frustration. Even though it took me a third day to complete the run, I have no room to complain any further, simply because once I finished that run and did a reset, I completed a single-day run. In fact, I'm ready to reset now to try it again. The RNG does suck at times, but sometimes it works out in your favor. So I'm sorry I blew some steam and made a big deal out of it, but I just need to get over it and enjoy the game. Which I do either way.
Gobberwart wrote:Jupider is EXACTLY right.
"In the time of war, we would never have left a man stranded."
"Maybe that's why we lost."

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Re: Worst. Run. Evar.

Unread post by Gobberwart » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:40 pm

Heh, all that said, I'll still be looking at putting some kind of "cap" on the number of turns it can possibly take to get the items required, because 3 days for the small number of quests we have is ridiculous.
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Re: Worst. Run. Evar.

Unread post by jupider » Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:08 am

Yes. Definitely needs a cap. My current run:
Spoiler:
Day 1: Fill up stomach and bladder with Artery Hardeners and Dixon Cider Spiders. Barely make it through the Ants quest with around 50 turns left over. Start Legion, gaining only one keycard.
Day 2: Again, fill up on AHs and DCSs (bear in mind this yields around 200 or so adventures!). Continue Legion quest getting only ONE MORE GODDAMN FUCKING KEYCARD! In 200 turns!!! *ONE* keycard! My holo dice even reduced my bladder once (And I kept rolling sixes, which to me is like rolling a 2, but you get another chance to roll another six; but that's for another thread.)
I'm convinced the RNG just plain hates me.
Gobberwart wrote:Jupider is EXACTLY right.
"In the time of war, we would never have left a man stranded."
"Maybe that's why we lost."

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Re: Worst. Run. Evar.

Unread post by jupider » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:33 pm

Obviously, I am doing something *very* wrong.
Spoiler:
In my current run, filling up on AHs and DCSs, I got 250 turns. Guess how far I got? The Ant's Pants. Yup, that's right. I *never* got the choice adventure to fight the queen ant. So then day two came and went, but I did finally beat the queen ant. And then guess how far I got? 2 keycards. Seriously. It's this kind of frustration that makes it difficult to enjoy a game. So here it is. I'm done complaining. I'm sure you guys are all sick of hearing me bitch about my resets, so no more. Consider it my New Year's resolution. I'll just do what I can and if my run sucks, fuck it; I'm getting a little tired of complaining myself. But I will still give my two cents towards content and suggestions and whatnot, because I really do enjoy that.
Cheers.
Gobberwart wrote:Jupider is EXACTLY right.
"In the time of war, we would never have left a man stranded."
"Maybe that's why we lost."

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Re: Worst. Run. Evar.

Unread post by Grokly » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:19 pm

Actually, jupider...

This is exactly the kind of feedback we ARE looking for. And although you point out that you consider it complaining on your part, I never actually got that vibe from your posts. We've been looking at the issue in the spirit I think you intended. Namely, feedback concerning a mechanic that probably needs some tweaking.

Gobb has been working on the adventure queue to help mitigate this kind of RNG screwage. I hope that you see the results of it in your future runs. But whether you do or not, I truly hope you continue to post your run results. Or a summary thereof. It's exactly why we instituted the alpha reset function.

I encourage ALL players to be as diligent as yourself.
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Re: Worst. Run. Evar.

Unread post by Gobberwart » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:53 am

I've finished fiddling with the adventure queue (unless there are problems with it) and the next thing on my list is to look at these quest encounters/drops for exactly the reasons you've mentioned. Hopefully there's a fairly simple solution.
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Re: Worst. Run. Evar.

Unread post by Gobberwart » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:12 pm

OK, it turns out that the algorithm used for the
Spoiler:
ant quest special encounters
was a bit off, so even without implementing a cap, that should now take close to 50% less time to complete, on average.

I'm still looking at putting some kind of cap in place, but that should definitely make a difference.
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Re: Worst. Run. Evar.

Unread post by genghizcohen » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:14 pm

This is my two cents on the update:
Spoiler:
After doing some other adventures, I started working to get the 4th key card, with a little more than 100 adventures left. Long story short, I'll have to finish the quest tomorrow. I've got all other cards, but its taken approximately 400 turns just on the first three. I'm hoping this is simply bad RNG luck, but 500+ adventures seems excessive.
Genghizcohen, leader of the bronze horde.

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Re: Worst. Run. Evar.

Unread post by Gobberwart » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:55 pm

The algorithm for the
Spoiler:
Department of Questionable Sciences
was also pretty seriously wonky in a couple of places and has been tweaked.

Based on the changes made, implementing a cap should now really not be necessary, but let me know how you go and I'll revisit it if need be.
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