Reset Mechanics Updated - Discuss

Discuss general aspects of game play, such as quests, content, items etc.

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Gobberwart
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Reset Mechanics Updated - Discuss

Unread post by Gobberwart » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:46 am

Just thought I'd create a thread for people to post their thoughts regarding the latest round of updates. You know, where restrictions were imposed on resets, and various rewards were changed, along with a few other minor tweaks to the display here and there.

Go ahead and say whatever's on your mind.
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McFeisty
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Re: Reset Mechanics Updated - Discuss

Unread post by McFeisty » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:59 am

<spoiler> McFeisty: Hey, for quantities, can you make it so if you delete the number, it will default to 'all'? Or have a checkbox or something for 'all'?

<spoiler> Gobberwart: Post it in the forum, Feisty. Sounds reasonable to me. I'll probably also add a "regenerate everything" button for when the restrictions are lifted


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Re: Reset Mechanics Updated - Discuss

Unread post by McFeisty » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:48 pm

I like the new content, nicely done. :) Some of it's a little annoying, but I can get used to the changes. Quite a bit fewer moneymaking opportunities, but them's the breaks, I guess.

I wonder if you could set it up like 'paths' on another game, where you could choose how restricted you are, like access to your showcase, etc.? Obviously, that would make your run ineligible for leaderboards. Or, if you chose to make it harder (your stuff goes to stash and cannot be accessed at all until after the final quest), that could make a separate leaderboard a possibility. Just a thought.

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Re: Reset Mechanics Updated - Discuss

Unread post by Gobberwart » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:21 pm

Honestly, I think I'll wait until we get a heap more actually game in place before fiddling with paths and the like, but yeah we do envisage there will be something like that in the future.
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Re: Reset Mechanics Updated - Discuss

Unread post by Gobberwart » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:30 pm

Before anyone starts in here, I've become aware of certain people who are complaining about the changes, and claiming various degrees of how we've "broken" (and in at least one case "destroyed") the game.

Fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but please remember that you are playing a game that is in an active phase of development, and you have no reason to expect that things are going to stay the way they are, or any real right to complain when they change.

Sure, if we change something and we get it wrong, we'll listen to player feedback and we'll tweak it until it's right, or we'll even roll it back if we have to, but saying things like "I hate the change because it makes it harder", without making any real suggestions for improvement, isn't really going to achieve anything.

To those people, and to everyone, I'd say the following:

- A game should be challenging, not just a mindless click-fest.
- Players should be able to make decisions that affect how the game plays out for them.
- No game is ever going to suit everyone all the time.
- This is not KoL, Secret Society Wars, Twilight Heroes, Muffins or anything else. It's Paradox, and some things WILL be different. Hopefully for the better.
- We WILL listen to constructive feedback, and make whatever changes need to be made. We WON'T listen to people whining.
- We're not Blizzard, or Take 2, or Microsoft, or any other company with thousands of employees and unlimited budgets. We're just a handful of people trying to find time in our hectic real lives to make a game that people can play. We're doing this for the love of it, and people bitching for the sake of bitching doesn't encourage us.
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Re: Reset Mechanics Updated - Discuss

Unread post by Gobberwart » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:01 pm

McFeisty wrote:<spoiler> McFeisty: Hey, for quantities, can you make it so if you delete the number, it will default to 'all'? Or have a checkbox or something for 'all'?

<spoiler> Gobberwart: Post it in the forum, Feisty. Sounds reasonable to me. I'll probably also add a "regenerate everything" button for when the restrictions are lifted
Both done :)
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Re: Reset Mechanics Updated - Discuss

Unread post by invisible » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:56 pm

I like most of the new content and yes resets needed to be more challenging... only thing I dont like is losing turns on pulls... so far the only one days i have acomplished are when i can buy one AH from ELL.. the RNG on this game is very strange sometime especially in ants... and before update i really watched my consumption so that i could complete runs... now i cant control that because of a lack of food and drinks and gear so i have to pump stats fast and hope for best....

so here it is
we lost 50 turns to every run base we have no real access to semi good food and pulls cost 5 turns and 100 moolah.... this equals most runs are going to fail in the science lap... there is just to much to do over all and i dont know if this matters but you have no + drop % so does this now make the keys harder to get... are they like items does drop % effect them.. IDK to me it feels like they do... then to end the run you have to depend on getting lucky because the door is very random and the pants that drop the last card key can be very hinky....

in 3 days i have pulled of 7 runs.... yes very challenging.... and some people might find it to challenging... I am still undecided i dont think we will see anyone doing anywhere close to 25 or 30 resets in a day that for sure even before there would be days where RNG just won out... and i could generate 220 turns and not finish.... so with about a 120 turns in a day now yea i dont see people breaking old speed and resets to much... but I could be wrong

so like im saying i like the idea of restrictions the challenge is good... maybe it was too many at once... IDK its still very new and there are alot of things to play with....
Last edited by invisible on Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Reset Mechanics Updated - Discuss

Unread post by Right2Wrong2000 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:04 pm

I personally think its a great thing you have done. Indeed you have added a challenge to the game. And right now we are thinking of everything in a very finite manner. More food will be created, drinks made, and other items to help. They may contain higher turn/fullness ratio. So just wait on those. Resets aren't for leaderboards persay, but for bug finding and fixing! And that is going exceptionally well, by the way!
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Re: Reset Mechanics Updated - Discuss

Unread post by genghizcohen » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:47 pm

The more I play, the more i enjoy the the changes. The regeneration nation is a bit wearing, but i think in the end it works well. However, it might be worth it to make softcore runs a choice, with a ronin period analogue? I know we don't want this to be a KoL clone, but it's a feature that might be worth implementing.
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Re: Reset Mechanics Updated - Discuss

Unread post by mastechno » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:04 pm

1 day resets aren't going to stay around...TPTB implemented resetting as a way so that all of US could go back check out the stuff we more than likely skipped over, or weren't paying attention for in the begining part of the game. And IMO i'm glad resetting is finally harder...it was screwing with some of the leaderboards (IMO) like most turns played(thanks for spiliting that one Gobb) most kills, etc.

Where there is a will there is a way. We will eventually figure out ways around the "pulling" costs, etc.


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Re: Reset Mechanics Updated - Discuss

Unread post by SportGuy » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:01 pm

mastechno wrote:1 day resets aren't going to stay around...TPTB implemented resetting as a way so that all of US could go back check out the stuff we more than likely skipped over, or weren't paying attention for in the begining part of the game. And IMO i'm glad resetting is finally harder...it was screwing with some of the leaderboards (IMO) like most turns played(thanks for spiliting that one Gobb) most kills, etc.

Where there is a will there is a way. We will eventually figure out ways around the "pulling" costs, etc.

I TOTALLY agree on this one. As I've been saying since resets first came out. One day resets are way too unbalancing if you think about it so really I think that part of it needs to be gotten over. Also yes the most lifetime turns played bored getting screwed up really killed a fundamental part of me so it is slightly biased i realize :P


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Re: Reset Mechanics Updated - Discuss

Unread post by McFeisty » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:31 pm

I get many less turns per day to play, now, with the restrictions in place. I'm not extremely happy about that, but I thought that was the point of the restrictions. Making it harder = less turns played per day. So if I am lucky enought to be able to reset, I get twice as many turns per day. I have not been able to manage more than one single-day reset per day yet. As we get used to the restrictions, that may increase.

The consequence to my playing less turns here is that I also spend less time in chat, perhaps you've noticed. There are several SSW players who also play Paradox, and I can chat with them over there, so I do that, sometimes, as I am playing a lot more SSW now than I was. I like that SSW does not have a finite number of turns per day. You get turns from food and drink, as here, but full/drunk decrease in small amounts over time, and HP increases over time, too. So, if I get full up and run out of turns there, I know I can come back in an hour or so and be able to play more. But I like Paradox better, for different reasons. The gratuitous filth on SSW is okay in small doses, but I'm bored with it. That sort of thing's cute on KoL when you're in the hole in the sky, and fighting the twig and berries, but it's not all over the game in no uncertain terms, and I like that Paradox has hardly any of those sorts of refs. :)

Resetting has been around for such a short time, that now it's really more like it was before reset was available, with some lucky possibility of a reset every day or two. I suppose if reset had been implemented with these restrictions already in place, there wouldn't be such bellyaching going on. I'm getting used to the new restrictions, and the unrestricted resets were a blast, but I'm certain it's all part of the journey to the game's final incarnation. It's still fun, no matter how much I play, so keep up the good work. Thanks! :)


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Re: Reset Mechanics Updated - Discuss

Unread post by mastechno » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:42 pm

I understand your frustrations, so don't get me wrong; I was just stating some things, and opinions. (yay for run-on sentences)
I also like the fact that bladder/fullness "regen" over time in SSW, but it's a different game...most games like this one that I've personally played have "finite" turns for a day. Other types of games that are more RTSish have the regen over time, but those are entirely different kinds of games.

But I'm going to have to play the "we're in alpha" card here...we're ALL still developing the game, and there is a TON of content that has yet to be implemented(and more than likely thought out.

If I had to guess as far as quests go and whatnot that Legion is like quest number 2/3ish in the grand scheme of things.

So yeah...keep an eye out for new stuffs...there are food/booze items on the way, new zones, new quests, and as always new equipment...as like ToG these new items, etc will help in resetting, but i highly doubt we're going to see too many more 1 dayers.

But I know I can speak for the dev team in saying that we want and value feedback like yours! It helps all of us in the long run!

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Re: Reset Mechanics Updated - Discuss

Unread post by Gobberwart » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:52 am

Great feedback from everyone! I do have a heap of thoughts on all of this, but I'm going to refrain from commenting until everyone's had their say.
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Re: Reset Mechanics Updated - Discuss

Unread post by jimmyBUFFET » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:41 am

I've been way for a while, and have not been able to explore the newest set of updates, but I can't imagine I'll have much negative feedback. I did 71 resets in one day. That seems to me a lot more broken than not having a lot of turns.

I equate it to money, in that we WERE the rich kid who never had to work for anything, and now we're moving toward being independent...sure, its odd and it'll be difficult for a little while, but that's life.

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Re: Reset Mechanics Updated - Discuss

Unread post by jupider » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:43 am

I'm glad to see some changes made to the game to increase the challenge and difficulty. Because in all honesty, after about 50 resets, I just got tired of it simply because there was no challenge; just a "mindless click-fest." Unfortunately, my "hectic real life" has made it impossible for me to play any turns for the past week or so (That and Super Paper Mario, that is. ;), but I am looking forward to the new implementations and seeing what kind of strategies arise from the new restrictions. Hopefully sometime soon I can contribute a little better opinion that just "I hope I like it." So until that happens, you kids have fun and don't make it too hard for me to catch up on the leaderboards :)
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