Abuse in Reset

Discuss general aspects of game play, such as quests, content, items etc.

Moderator: Public Forum Moderators


Topic author
Cowboy
Forum Addict
Posts: 885
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:52 pm

Buying items from player stores during reset

Unread post by Cowboy » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:42 pm

The title explains it all. I would like to be able to buy from players stores during a reset using money from the STASH. The items purchased would go to the STASH. This would be a good addition because for certain sales you cannot purchase them normally due to lack of funds.
Image


Topic author
Cowboy
Forum Addict
Posts: 885
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:52 pm

Abuse in Reset

Unread post by Cowboy » Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:14 pm

I was discussing this with Gobb and he encouraged me to bring it up on the forum... so.. Should you be able to purchase items from player stores using moolah obtained during the run? Let's consider the pros and cons.

Pros
*More freedom with "little" abuse
*If you don't have an item in storage, you can get it without farming
*Use for moolah

Cons
*"Hardcore" players can abuse this freedom and shave turns off their runs

This only becomes an issue when the game has more quests, and rewards for runs, to encourage competition. But, it will most likely be abused by hardcore players. If Player A ignores everyone (make them unable to shop in store) except Player B, then Player A sets a bag of chips or an item of similar greatness at minimum price, Player B can buy it for cheap, saving 5 turns in the process. (As opposed to withdrawing from storage)

So, what do you think? Does it not really matter that much? Am I overreacting? Let me know.
Image

User avatar

Gobberwart
Developer
Posts: 3396
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:41 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Abuse in Reset

Unread post by Gobberwart » Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:54 pm

Personally, I think it's a valid point. While it's true that you can only buy stuff you can afford (ie. with moolah you've earnt from the current run) it's also true that someone COULD do what you suggested... At least while the community is so small. It'd take quite a while to ignore everyone, but it could be done. It's also a temptation for people to engage in multi-abuse, even though it's not permitted the chances of getting caught might not outweigh the tempation.

Still, please everyone share your thoughts. Should purchasing items in the mall while reset restrictions are in place be banned? Alternatively, should purchases made in the mall while restrictions are in place go to your stash where you can't get them until restrictions are lifted, but at least you can still get a bargain in the long run?
Image

User avatar

commandermack
Chat Moderator
Posts: 1024
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:40 pm

Re: Abuse in Reset

Unread post by commandermack » Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:29 pm

ultimately, i never thought items should be purchaseable from stores while in restrictions... but then again, i think that putting such a heavy fine of withdrawling items is silly too, i can see maybe 1 turn and 100 moolah, or just 5 turns straight up or something, but so many limiters just makes it silly to withdraw, especially with store purchases sitting right there to only take moolah.

Option two to move stuff to the stash, just seems a bit off, if anything, they should move to the storage disk, so you can still have the option to grab it for 5/100. Don't restrict 1 thing just because it was gotten this run..., i mean, it was paid for with this runs moolah already, so it has an entanglement with the current run.

overall, i think it would probably be better off for 1/100 and no mall access.

User avatar

commandermack
Chat Moderator
Posts: 1024
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:40 pm

Re: Buying items from player stores during reset

Unread post by commandermack » Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:32 pm

skippity doo dah
Last edited by commandermack on Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar

Gobberwart
Developer
Posts: 3396
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:41 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Abuse in Reset

Unread post by Gobberwart » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:03 pm

Since the discussion covers both things, I've merged the two topics. Carry on.
Image

User avatar

jimmyBUFFET
Forum Addict
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:10 pm
Location: Brackney, PA
Contact:

Re: Abuse in Reset

Unread post by jimmyBUFFET » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:19 pm

I would like to see a system where the purchaser can purchase items from another player's store with moolah from his/her disk, and having purchased items going somewhere where they are inaccessible until restrictions are lifted, and where the person from whom the item is purchased gets the moolah, but the moolah earned in the transaction goes to the same somewhere, preventing them from using it until their reset status allows it normally.

-jB
Image


Elusis
Forum Addict
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:51 am

Re: Abuse in Reset

Unread post by Elusis » Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:54 am

So a transaction is made, however any transfer of anything is pending the removal of restrictions?
Image


Topic author
Cowboy
Forum Addict
Posts: 885
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:52 pm

Re: Abuse in Reset

Unread post by Cowboy » Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:12 am

I just thought of another thing. Today, in the daily lottery, I won 1,000 moolah. Great, right? No. This allowed me to watch 10 more movies than someone who wasn't as "lucky." Sure, 1k isn't much, but what if I won 1m? Then I could buy a great amount of good items (without having to go through the ignoring everyone ordeal) I think money won should go to storage. Reset leaderboards shouldn't be left up to luck.
Image

User avatar

commandermack
Chat Moderator
Posts: 1024
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:40 pm

Re: Abuse in Reset

Unread post by commandermack » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:08 am

jimmyBUFFET wrote:I would like to see a system where the purchaser can purchase items from another player's store with moolah from his/her disk, and having purchased items going somewhere where they are inaccessible until restrictions are lifted, and where the person from whom the item is purchased gets the moolah, but the moolah earned in the transaction goes to the same somewhere, preventing them from using it until their reset status allows it normally.

-jB
You realize how blasphemous that sounds jimmy? oh, i bought your item, but since im in restrictions, you cant have your money, oh snap, i just quitted the game in restrictions, now you never get j00r monies, lolololol. >.>

User avatar

commandermack
Chat Moderator
Posts: 1024
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:40 pm

Re: Abuse in Reset

Unread post by commandermack » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:11 am

Cowboy wrote:I just thought of another thing. Today, in the daily lottery, I won 1,000 moolah. Great, right? No. This allowed me to watch 10 more movies than someone who wasn't as "lucky." Sure, 1k isn't much, but what if I won 1m? Then I could buy a great amount of good items (without having to go through the ignoring everyone ordeal) I think money won should go to storage. Reset leaderboards shouldn't be left up to luck.
umm, should he get rid of Really Good Fortune too? seriously, Luck is Luck, have you gotten the 1 mil yet? yeah... it doesn't really go all willy-nilly. The lotto is part of daily activities, so if it helps a run, it is "JUST" for doing so.


Topic author
Cowboy
Forum Addict
Posts: 885
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:52 pm

Re: Abuse in Reset

Unread post by Cowboy » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:27 am

My point is the Paradox Daily Lottery is completely random. It doesn't take turns or anything. If you want a chance at 1 million via Really Good Fortune, go ahead. But, you have to spend turns. And, anyone can do that (provided the correct level). But if you want to win from the Paradox Daily Lottery, there is no way to increase your chance.

For example, player A has the best gear in the game for leveling and defeating Legion. Right at level 7 he can start the Legion quest and defeat him.

Player B has good gear, but not the best for the same purposes. If player B wins the Paradox Daily Lottery, he saves turns by because he can buy Artery Hardeners, Spiders, etc. Player A has to make them (which takes turns to get ingredients and to combine items) or withdraw them from storage (100 moolah and 5 turns), but Player B can just buy them from the mall, saving many turns. This means that player B may get a faster run time because he was lucky, not because he had more skill or better gear. There is already plenty of luck it this game.

And Mack, I've not one 1m in the Paradox Daily Lottery, but I have won 100,000. And 25,000. Twice. Even that would help immensely in a run. You could buy 6 artery hardeners, 6 spiders, and 2 other 3 bladder drinks and still have money left over for really bad jokes and whatnot.
Image

User avatar

commandermack
Chat Moderator
Posts: 1024
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:40 pm

Re: Abuse in Reset

Unread post by commandermack » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:39 am

yeah, but you only get lotto once a day, and im not sure if gobb has lowered the win ratio yet, i know he boosted it from low moolah in the game to be nice, but that was suppose to be for like a week, i have no idea if he ever lowered it. But it is once a day... you shouldn't have to spend turns... It is a part of everyone's run. Equal opportunity to get it, so it really wont have any affect on the overall populous towards resets and stuff. It helps... it is suppose to help...


Topic author
Cowboy
Forum Addict
Posts: 885
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:52 pm

Re: Abuse in Reset

Unread post by Cowboy » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:21 am

You can definately get lotto more than once a week... I won 3 times in a row once.

Also, everyone gets the chance but not everyone gets the gain... again it shouldn't be up to luck.
Image

User avatar

jimmyBUFFET
Forum Addict
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:10 pm
Location: Brackney, PA
Contact:

Re: Abuse in Reset

Unread post by jimmyBUFFET » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:51 pm

commandermack wrote:You realize how blasphemous that sounds jimmy? oh, i bought your item, but since im in restrictions, you cant have your money, oh snap, i just quitted the game in restrictions, now you never get j00r monies, lolololol. >.>
Obviously, what I meant was that reset restrictions would apply to whatever end of the deal that player is on...one player's restrictions shouldn't ever affect any other player's game.

-jB
Image

User avatar

commandermack
Chat Moderator
Posts: 1024
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:40 pm

Re: Abuse in Reset

Unread post by commandermack » Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:04 pm

fair nough jimmy, i thought that is what you meant, just didn't read that way. :P

User avatar

Gobberwart
Developer
Posts: 3396
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:41 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Abuse in Reset

Unread post by Gobberwart » Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:54 pm

Enjoying the discussion, please keep it up.

Just one point. IF we keep the lottery once we get to beta (and that's not the intention but who knows?) it will definitely be restricted. Right now... well, reset's pretty easy anyway and it doesn't matter that much. We just want everyone to test everything and report issues.
Image


trogdorable
Forum Addict
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:00 am

Re: Abuse in Reset

Unread post by trogdorable » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:00 am

I agree with jimmy. I think purchase from player stores should be allowed, but the items you purchase should go into storage with everything else. I don't think it should matter whether you use moolah from your current run of from restricted moolah. Maybe you could choose (as some people might not have anything stored. rare but it happens) between your restricted moolah and on hand moolah? Non restricted player still gets the moolah from purchase right away, you still maybe got a sweet deal, but you're still limited in your access just like you would be to all your other items.

If that were the way of things, sure winning lottery would give you a lot of moolah, but you wouldn't just be able to go out and get AH's and whatnot to boost your run. Though as Gobb says lottery is not being intended for keeping once we go beta. But anyway, I think this would function well with or without lotto.


Topic author
Cowboy
Forum Addict
Posts: 885
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:52 pm

Re: Abuse in Reset

Unread post by Cowboy » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:41 pm

This is what I think:

choice to purchase from restricted moolah and moolah from run (on hand)
from restricted moolah: item goes to stash
from moolah on hand: item goes to storage
Image

User avatar

Gobberwart
Developer
Posts: 3396
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:41 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Abuse in Reset

Unread post by Gobberwart » Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:53 pm

Cowboy wrote:from moolah on hand: item goes to storage
Now, when you say "storage", what do you mean? The backpack, stash, stufstik etc. are all forms of "storage".

If you mean backpack, then that doesn't address the original issue where a player could conceivably pick up something amazingly good incredibly cheap when they shouldn't be.

If you mean stufstik, that's a no go for reasons of narrative plausibility.
Image


Topic author
Cowboy
Forum Addict
Posts: 885
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:52 pm

Re: Abuse in Reset

Unread post by Cowboy » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:13 am

Okay, the items you have when you reset, go into "storage." Those are the items you can withdraw from Regeneration Nation for 5 turns and 100 moolah. Items sent to you go to STASH, where you can't withdraw them.
Image

User avatar

Gobberwart
Developer
Posts: 3396
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:41 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Abuse in Reset

Unread post by Gobberwart » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:14 pm

Ok, you're calling the StufStik "storage". If you insist :P

I started thinking about all the ramifications and decided it needs some serious thought. I'll make sure it goes on the list of things to be thunk about before we get to beta and get back to you. In the meantime, any more input from anyone is appreciated.
Image

Post Reply