Raffle

pw079 · Unread post by **pw079** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:13 am

It would be cool if there was a another type of ticket implemented that you could buy to get some kind of items/item daily. It could be something big like a customized weapon of the admins choice or maybe a Jolly Item or rare type items. I think it would be cool to see. Just a thought I had. Fee free to pick it apart lol

invisible · Unread post by **invisible** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:00 am

even though another KOL idea.... i would love to see away to get some of the older items for us newer players... since no one is willing to trade anything that i am looking for

My wish list is way to long

Blaize · Unread post by **Blaize** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:12 pm

I wouldn't really like to see something like the raffle unless there was a limit on tickets. I hate the KOL raffle because the rich buy loads of tickets, win and become uber rich. I hate that as it isn't fair. There are loads of old items that I would love to have but I dont think I'd like there to be a REGULAR way to get those old items or it would take away there specialness. Maybe a once a year or something competition/contest where you could win something.

A slight modification to this idea would be a shop where you could by a 'surprise box' for something like 1000 moolah and you open it to reveal an item. Kind of like a lucky dip more than a raffle. If you get lucky, you get a festive drink or something like that, if you are AMAZINGLY lucky then you may win a token/holo dice/LE item and if you are unlucky then you get something like a pile of something gross. Some of the pries could also be effects so that you could get an effect that at the high end of the scale gives you 100% moolah drops and at the bad end of the scale gives you 50% fumble rate or something. There would be a daily limit of times that you could do this a day. This would be a good way to maybe give newer players some nice shiny items and it doesn't lean towards favouring rich people that can afford to buy thousands of tickets.

Thoughts?

Unread post by **Right2Wrong2000** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:56 pm

Honestly O'Rap... though in theory it is a great idea, I dont think it would work. Maybe on the player scale we are at now it wouldn't hurt, but when we get more players it would introduce rare items into the game too much. And it would also encourage idiots to multi-abuse. I like the thought behind it and I think there are some ways to develop this into a more feasible idea, but as such... it wouldn't work.

Blaize · Unread post by **Blaize** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:00 pm

Surely that depends on how many rares were put into it and how small the chance of getting one was? Not every rare has to be included does it? Dont dismiss the idea without giving it full thoughts ey?

Unread post by **Right2Wrong2000** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:03 pm

No Ma'am I wasn't, but I think the problem here would be stepping on the toes of players who already have said items because they have been here awhile. What makes them different...? I mean yes it would be a slim chance, but it still means the younglings will have a chance to be as equal as someone who has been here for two years or so. If that makes sense?

Blaize · Unread post by **Blaize** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:06 pm

Not really.... one person getting one rare wont make much a difference... especially if that rare was rotated so not many of 1 item got out.

Unread post by **Right2Wrong2000** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:10 pm

Well... The older rares it would. But like you said, they dont have to be included. I think the number of rares is proportional to the number of people in the game right now and will grow so accordingly. Likewise with moolah.

invisible · Unread post by **invisible** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:10 pm

oh like a grab bag in a card shop.. i like your idea and i agree about KOL raffles its a system that promotes the rich to get richer... in the history of KOL raffle there has only been one winner with less than double digit tickets... even a monthly lottery system might be something to look at one ticket per character or even every time you make a cash donation you get 1 entry in a monthly lottery... to promote contributing to those fine people who develop the game... and I know all the arguments on that thought I will hear.. not fair this..not right that.. been there heard that... so please dont attack this with those comments ... im not talking about a huge dumb of those item into the system... but who knows what Gobb has planed for items in the future some of them could be way better.. personally I cant wait to see what comes in the future...

SportGuy · Unread post by **SportGuy** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:53 pm

I'm not sure I like this at all...why not just implement as random rare items in the game as drops? Without sounding harsh here discontinued items are discontinued for a reason, it makes no sense for their to be any way for a newer player to get it but somehow acquiring it from someone that has one. As the game goes on there will be more items like that and there'll always be something to grab.

Unread post by **Right2Wrong2000** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:10 pm

My thoughts exactly Sport. The older players should be rewarded for their longevity in the game.

pw079 · Unread post by **pw079** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:11 pm

I understand your point on the veteran players cherishing their items, but it wouldnt hurt to take some of Mrs. O idea with the surprise box, maybe have a limited amount availible from the token store or another store and it can contain random items and maybe like 2-5 out of the number of the surprise boxes would contain a hit. Almost as if it were like buying packs of baseball cards. That way the vets still can say they have the good stuff and then every now and then a newer player can hit it big by getting something good out of the surprise box.

I think I would agree more with not doing it if I would have joined a while back for the cool stuff.. lol

jimmyBUFFET · Unread post by **jimmyBUFFET** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:20 am

What about a surprise box like the one described, but with like a 80+% chance of getting one of the current token items, and a combined ~20% chance of getting one of the discontinued ones? The probability of getting a specific one would decrease over time.

Also, you could make it a token item itself and have a limit of X boxes between limited time items. That way it encourages people to donate, allows a chance (however slim) for a newer player to get an old item, and no matter what you get SOME sort of token item for the price of your token.

-jB

Unread post by **Right2Wrong2000** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:36 am

I like the idea JB, but I feel it would have to cost more than a single token at that point Because instead of buying the current token item outright, it would be a better idea to buy the box. You will PROBABLY get the current token item but you can still maybe get the older. No risk involved. Id say if it cost 2 tokens, people would be more weary to buy it, especially at a similar drop rate as before mentioned...

Blaize · Unread post by **Blaize** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:01 am

See, my whole idea was that NEWBIES could get hold of nice items. A newbie is not going to have 2 tokens to hand and even then is not going to want to risk them to possibly get a crap deal. Call it a way to draw newbies in. A lot of new people will not want to donate to a game that they have just joined but if they join the game and get a bit of good luck by maybe winning a nice shiny item then that may encourage them to stay and support us.

It wouldn't be unbalancing to the game and the people who have collected these items to sell later will still make as much profit because most of the items won will be used. It is only the people who are hoarding who are saying this, just like they would in KOL. Newer players would agree with me because they have wish-lists of things that they desperately want. I am one of the hoarders but I still want to see later joiners get a chance to have their dream items.

Unread post by **Right2Wrong2000** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:16 am

I know that alot of the newer players as of the last couple months or so have donated to the game, yet I have played for almost a month now and haven't donated once. Its not because I'm stingey or I dont wanna help out, but its because I dont have the money to do so. The point I'm getting at is that I don't believe luck in the game will cause a newbie to want to donate. Interesting content, a great group of people, and the ability to donate will determine whether they can donate. Thats just my personal opinion and isn't meant to offend anyone.

And its not that Im trying to be all elite and not let others have a chance at nice items, but we did stumble upon the game for a reason. For goodness sake, Paradox has been on Jick and Skully show so its been publicized. So how does possessing a rare item make me better than someone else? And as for the idea that KoL makes it hard for newbies to get rich... I disagree. It takes hard work to gain the things you want, not a stroke of luck. I worked everday for two years for what I have in KoL and that wasn't a stroke of luck. That was sitting in trade trying to find good deals. And now I can afford my dream items.

As for the collecting items vs. consuming them... I disagree also. They may want to possess the rare items, but it doesn't mean they will use them indefinitely. They may just toss them in their SC and admire from there. Who's to say that after that, they may or may not sell them because they find something else that they want that they can spend their moolah on. Its just an idea and I'm not saying any of the aforementioned will happen.

invisible · Unread post by **invisible** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:14 am

I agree with R2 in many ways a lot of valid points... but from my stand point i see alot of items that have and will be forever lose in game because those players who were lucky enough to be here for those events now seem to not be playing.. causing even less supply and more demand on a few rare items... and as a player who will search out the best gear possible that make me

.

jimmyBUFFET · Unread post by **jimmyBUFFET** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:05 pm

the items available from it would include also all of the token GEAR, not just the limited time items, so really there's not much chance at all of narrowing down what you get, AND you could only do it, say, once per cycle of limited time offers.

for instance, right now there are 11 items that are tradable for a token, between the TP, Drinks Dispenser, and the gear. just for shits and giggles lets say theres aan 88% chance of getting a current item from the box and a 12% chance of getting something older. There is now just an 8% chance of getting any specific CURRENT item, as well as a 12%/XX chance of getting a specific older one.

If you're worried about picking and choosing which current item you want, then its certainly not in your best interest to buy the box.

-jB

Unread post by **Right2Wrong2000** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:16 pm

This still doesn't necessarily address O'Rap's idea that this should be geared toward nooblies... I'd say hard work and persistence is the way to go with these items. Its very possible at this current time to farm up various items which sell for decent amounts of moolah to make enough money to purchase and trade your way up to high end items... Very possible.

Unread post by **Gobberwart** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:58 pm

First off, let me just say it's fascinating to see you guys having the same discussions in public that we (the dev group) have been having in private, and bringing up most of the same points. I for one am really enjoying reading your points of view, and will be taking all the various opinions into consideration moving forward.

I must say, I quite like the idea of a Token Gear mystery box, which is always available and has a significant chance of giving a piece of token gear or a current LE item, and a MUCH lower chance of giving a no-longer-available token, or possibly other item. There are definitely pros and cons, and I know some of the 'veterans' won't like the idea much.

I also wonder just how many people would be willing to take the risk, even if it was just a single token cost and there was a guarantee that the item you get would be of token item standard or higher.

A couple of other points:

Regarding players who have acquired limited items and stopped playing - hopefully that's temporary. Once we have more content, I will contact all registered players and let them know. In the meantime, no accounts will be deleted through inactivity.

Regarding Paradox being "publicised" - yes, Paradox has been mentioned on the J&S show, as well as on RFX and in a couple of other places. However, the game is still in alpha testing/active development phase, and we're not really doing anything to publicise it heavily until we're close to, or in, beta, which is still several months away. At least.

Anyway, keep talking

Unread post by **Right2Wrong2000** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:02 pm

Gobb... You should be a bloody politician.

SportGuy · Unread post by **SportGuy** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:46 pm

Sorry, I think holiday/token items/other specials should be limited and never released again. There will always be something else. It's not about "luck" it's about commitment, dedication and stick-to-itiveness. As the game goes on there will always be newer players and this should not be something mentioned everytime. I take the get over it opinion on this just like I have in KOL and my player number there is in the late 300,000s and thus there was plenty there to miss on. I think whining for something that's discontinued to be recontinued cheapens it and I can not stand by that. Should everyone on kol be given hand turkeys and dark jill-o-lanterns too?

Hell, while we're at it there's some stuff I want...like the mystery box. It's not fair that some people have it and i don't can i get it? Please please please.....ohhhh and the thing the professor wants...I really want that too...How about it...How about you put them in a box and i'll pay 1000 moolah for a 20% chance to draw it...man that'd be sweet!

In a year when players that just started say...last week get an item for say...Christmas...or some rare token item they save up for or whatever...and then I suggest giving it to x amount of new players...watch how quickly I'll get skinned.

But yeah that's kind of my take on it.

Unread post by **Right2Wrong2000** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:33 pm

Agreed Sport. There are many things in the game I'd love to have at this point, but just aren't feasible. Maybe sometime down the line I could get my hands on a Professor Doodad, but until then Im going to have to be content with what I have and work harder to get what I want.

As stupid as all of Sport's ideas sound, they make sense. The players saying this, if put in the position of the "elitists" would feel the same way about their items they have waited around for, for so long. If this wasn't true... Jolly items would be floating around trade more fluidly because no one would care for the value they hold in the future.

jimmyBUFFET · Unread post by **jimmyBUFFET** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:37 pm

We need to define what sort of items would be around in this situation. The way I was thinking of it, it would be former limited time items from the token store only, with the strong drop chance emphasis on the items currently in store. It certainly wouldn't be giving anyone anything without them having to work for it, or at least pay for it, as everyone (even the older players) would have the same chances at things, just like every other aspect of the game.

If one of the people who are around now were to get an infinite TP roll out of a box a year down the road, you would chalk it up to luck rather than being given an unfair advantage, so why not someone who hadn't heard about this game yet? I know if I hadn't been in chat for a very specific moment on a very specific day and decided to check out what the guy was talking about, I still wouldn't know anything about this game.

Gobb said somewhere on these forums recently that the game hasn't been advertised yet, as we're still in alpha. As such, there isn't a very high chance that someone would run into one of us yet, nor that we would get them into this game. Having it be a token item would ensure that the players buying it aren't fly-by-night, and still give them a chance to try out a piece of content that they may have missed. Let's not forget the amount of work that goes into each of these items, only to have them be discontinued with only a handful of players seeing what they do. As far as I'm concerned, a very very slight availability of these items in the future would be enticing to say the least, and would help stabilize both the in-game economy and a happy and devoted playerbase.

-jB

invisible · Unread post by **invisible** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:47 pm

grats to jimmy.. very well put...

Unread post by **Impalix** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:00 am

Alright, it's just about all been said, but I'm going to kick in from my side of the fence. I've held off simply for fear of smiting people with my frankness.

Hands down, without question, the idea of re-releasing RARE, LIMITED items that are not part of

A: A holiday cycle
B: A last minute desperate attempt to boost a failing economy
C: A plan to correct moolah bugs that enter the system

is UNHOLY and WRONG. Get. OVER it.

Any argument I could give on this has already been well-stated by either Sporty or R2.

I will say, however, that the idea of a raffle box is not a bad thing. It simply should not contain said items listed above. Perhaps a rare item specifically FOR the box could be developed (much like the grimacite sets in KoL), but to bring back items from the dead just because people are whining about not being around to get them in the first place makes my blood boil. And I'm a DIAMOND.

Unread post by **Right2Wrong2000** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:21 am

- Concur whole-heartedly with Impy here.
- As of right now, there is a contest being held for Aussie Pride Stickers. Its a pretty sweet contest which gives a stab at an item that would otherwise be unattainable to us normal folk, but Gobb felt it a good idea to hold this contest. Does that mean that folks who join two years from now should also have the same chance at obtaining said sticker, or should it be for the folks that have been around and understand how the sticker came about. I would say the second half, but some would disagree.
- Should the Alpha-Launch pack be available to those not present on Alpha Launch Day? No way because that's historic, just like the old items are. To say we could giveaway goodies from Christmas '07 or '08 is just kinda dumb. Lets just change them to Christmas Whenever-The-Hell-We-Feel-Like? Same with Token Gear. As Sport said, should KoL giveaway Hand Turkeys and Yetis because its sad that not everyone has one? No.

Unread post by **Gobberwart** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:45 pm

I'm in complete agreement that whining about not being able to get things that aren't available any more is annoying and silly. There are a couple of hundred other things that you CAN still get/collect, and many many more to come. As Impy so succinctly put it "Get. OVER it."

That said, please read through the following (my position on this as it stands) because there's still a grey area (you'll see what I mean when you get there).

- As far as items that are given specifically for a particular event (Christmas, Alpha launch, whatever) it's just common sense that the recipient should have been here at the right time to get it and shouldn't be able to get it if they weren't. It's why many of these items aren't even tradable. There is currently no possible reason I can think of why these items would ever need to be re-released.

- Aussie Pride sticker? Like Jazzy's hug vouchers or Impy's outfit, these stickers are my playthings, and I'll give them to whoever I like whenever I like and for whatever reason amuses me at the time. Sure, there's no limit to them and I don't have to pay for them etc, but there's gotta be SOME perks to this job

I seriously doubt anyone has a problem with that.

- Obsolete items like the "thing the prof wants"? They're obsolete for a reason. If you're one of the VERY few who has one, huzzah. Stick it in your showcase and let everyone admire your shiny e-penis. If you don't, you're in the vast majority.

- Token Gear Limited Edition Items?

Hmmmmm, everyone is working under the assumption that these items will, at some point, become completely and permanently unavailable, to be replaced by new items, eventually on a frequent, regular basis (ie. monthly). That's a fair assumption, and is definitely the intention, but it's not written in stone anywhere and doesn't HAVE to work that way.

A 'mystery box' item, which costs a token, and will give you a current token item (could be LE item or standard token gear) and maybe a VERY small chance of getting an older item that somehow ended up in the box, either in addition to or instead of the normal item... Well, it's an interesting concept, which I'm neither ruling out nor definitely going with - I'm still very very carefully considering both sides of the argument, which means I want to hear more opinions.

I should perhaps clarify: we're not talking about "paying 1000 moolah for a 20 percent chance", we're talking about exchanging a token of appreciation for a mystery token item, with a VERY small % chance that the item might be a Token Gear Limited Edition Item which is no longer able to be purchased from Token Gear. We are DEFINITELY not talking about stickers or other items that cannot be traded or obtained in any method other than by being here at the right time.

Unread post by **Right2Wrong2000** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:23 pm

What about having to pay a token and some sort of commission fee for the box? Because if you open the box and it doesn't have what you want... You can just possibly trade it off for someone looking for what you want... IE I get a hat, but want sneakers so I find a sneaker buyer and get a hat. That still just seems kinda funny to me.

jimmyBUFFET · Unread post by **jimmyBUFFET** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:32 am

R2, if you really wanted sneakers, you wouldn't be getting the box.

As far as just trading off for what you really wanted, you would again only buy the box over the other items FOR the very small chance of getting something else. Operating under this assumption, the only way to trade it away in favour of what you're looking for would be to trade it for another token and try again, in which case it would be extremely hard, I'm sure, to find someone who has a token, is willing to trade it for the available item you got, AND hasn't traded it for said item already. I really don't see that as a very big issue, all things considered.

If it does end up being an issue, it could be easily remedied by having a limit to how many boxes you can buy during a specific LE cycle. Perhaps the box could be a different colour once a new cycle begins, if it makes coding easier. At any rate, this problem would be, I think, relatively simple to alleviate.

-jB

SportGuy · Unread post by **SportGuy** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:00 pm

I still don't like the box idea. As a matter of fact, I really dislike it. If something is no longer available I think it should stay that way. Ultimately, I of course have no choice but to acquiesce to whatever the final decision is on this though, so I'll stop beating the point in.

Unread post by **unknownZ** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:30 am

Ive been reading this every day, and now I say my thought about this, The mystery box should not contain old token items, they are not really necessary to play the game and wouldn't be so much fun for the early people who got the old token items. So I was thinking the box could give token gear items, and uncommonly/rarely give new rare items that were similar to the old ones, and you can even add new ones. Depending how the box would work would determine its value.

Unread post by **mastechno** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:39 am

ok so since SG deleted my post :-p here it is again

i agree that the box or whatever gets rolled out(if at all) should not contain the old token items...rather i think that we should create something like what kol did with grimacite...still an incentive to get the box because of the RARE drop...but not the old token stuff

now should something like white wednesday happen...then it's fair game to bring back old stuff :-p <.<

SportGuy · Unread post by **SportGuy** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:43 am

mastechno wrote:ok so since SG deleted my post :-p here it is again

i agree that the box or whatever gets rolled out(if at all) should not contain the old token items...rather i think that we should create something like what kol did with grimacite...still an incentive to get the box because of the RARE drop...but not the old token stuff

now should something like white wednesday happen...then it's fair game to bring back old stuff :-p <.<

Lmao dude...I went to agree and quote your post and totally slipped up...at least i told you right away though right?

In this one instance, I'm not infallible *sighs*. Sorry.

So ummm yeah...i agree with this post.

Also, if white Wednesday happens, I'm killing someone.

Fondly,

SG

Unread post by **Impalix** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:16 pm

Sporty, Mas, you really should have READ my post and seen that I mentioned this already. Just saying xD

Unread post by **Gobberwart** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:55 am

The KoL Grimacite raffle is a meat-sink, pure and simple. We don't need a moolah-sink, so there's not much point in creating one just yet.

Sportguy, if something like white wednesday happens, can you make me the person you kill? That way I won't have to figure out how to fix the problem

SportGuy · Unread post by **SportGuy** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:22 pm

Right gob, but the point was if you're going to do a get a current token item or something else from a token item grab bag box by spending a token the "something else" should be a whole new item created for that purposed rather then a "no longer available" token item/holiday item/special item/etc.

And also, check on the killing you thing....I'm just going to need you to fill out the appropriate euthanasia documents and what not beforehand.

Unread post by **Gobberwart** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:56 pm

Fair enough, I think we can leave this one for a bit anyway. Too many other things to do first. Thanks to everyone who's offered an opinion - it really IS helpful.

And Sporty, euthanasia is lame. I want to go out with a bang, not a whimper.

No, that wasn't an invitation to bang me to death.

Unread post by **Impalix** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:10 pm

Gobberwart wrote:No, that wasn't an invitation to bang me to death.

/crycrycry