Prestidigitational Pudding *Contains Spoilers*

[unknownZ]

Its a great resetting familiar and fighting scaling monsters at some point and future higher level content, But I would at leats like for the pudding drops to be in the end of combats rewards thing instead of it being on combat rounds.

[Gobberwart]

Thanks, Z. Nothing's set in concrete and we're happy to look at it if need be. Anyone else have any thoughts?

[jimmyBUFFET]

I'm at a pretty high level and nothing is more than one hit for me, and I haven't seen any drops at all from my pudding. I don't know if this is right or wrong, but just pointing it out.

-jB

[Gobberwart]

Yeah, that's right. The pudding is doing exactly what it should be doing if you're one-hit-killing everything, ie. absolutely nothing. Based on feedback, people at high level are finding that irritating and are requesting that it be changed. Of course, there are ways to work with it to get drops, but most people are saying that's too much like work.

We're definitely taking the feedback on board and considering whether or not it needs changing, but we're also considering what else the pet is supposed to do.. If you're a high-level player, and you kill everything in one hit, it's almost entirely useless, but if you're a low-level player (ie. you're new or you've just reset) then... well, it's a lot more useful.

We're also taking into account the fact that we're in active development/alpha testing and hardly anybody is doing any real testing. With few exceiptions, most players are just hanging around and power-levelling which isn't really all that helpful as far as testing goes. Sure we want you to have fun, but anything we can do that rewards people prepared to make the effort to go do a few resets is at least a small positive.

Question is, should we change it so that it's useful for everyone to a greater or lesser degree, or should we leave it alone? I'd like to hear more than just one person's opinion.

[commandermack]

To be blunt, For me to donate 10$ for a completely useless familiar unless I reset is just... PUDDING... ok! xD

I got the thing, based on the fact that it said it dropped food... use it to find out it doesn't drop food since im lvl 33... whoooooo, look at that, 10$ in the pudding bowl there... now go reset cus you want to test it... bah!

I think that everything else that is Token just activates, it should to... Examples being the Bio Watch and the Buddy Backpack... Those things steal items, attack, give moolah, and substats despite 1 hit killing.

To be honest, if left like it is, i wouldn't reset to use it, i'd just be interested and pay like 50 per bandage and stasis twenty times per adventure.

[this part removed out of kindness to others]
Just my opinion.

I'm really fine either way... Just seems like you used my donation against me to try and make me reset with the way it is now. If changed, awesome, if not, that's fine.

As unknownz said, the pudding drop at the end of the combat would be nice or left where it is so it is possible for multiple drops but dropable on the first step despite getting the jump and autoattacking, also the attack coming through regardless of getting the jump or not would be nice, like the watch... regardless of whether it is needed or not. It may be the tipping factor.

[invisible]

I have yet to get one and use it and IDK if I will.... this Item reminds me in a lot of ways of Love bling since it does not activate on OHK.... the food does look nice.... but personally I think the game is already a little over ran on the food side of things.... I don't see a lot of use for the Item at this time but as game builds if could be a great holopet..... I would like to see the OHK thing removed but that is my opinion on it... I would also like to see it removed from any item that does it.... for me I don't see the benefit of this Item right now maybe all regret it later

my one bitch is this I thought Holopets where going to be much more of the pet variety..... actual animal type concepts from the initial release of them and now we have a bowl of pudding....


Dont mistake the lack of talent for genius

[Gobberwart]

EDIT: Pointless crap removed.

Mack, I don't agree with you 100% (have sent you a pmail) but yes, a lot of what you said is valid. Not necessarily easy to hear, but... yeah, ok, noted.

Invis, there's a reference you're not getting obviously. That said... no, we never said holopets were going to be actual animals, so don't always expect them to be.

[Cowboy]

I agree it should be at the end, I agree with mack's reasons

[invisible]

Invis, there's a reference you're not getting obviously. That said... no, we never said holopets were going to be actual animals, so don't always expect them to be.[/quote]

I didnt say it was said It was just how if felt the first 5 where all based on animals even though there where some liberty's took in there creation it felt like we where looking at a theme and not something that would shoot all over as in (TOG)......

[Gobberwart]

Ahhh well, sorry to give you that impression. We started off with a bunch of animals, but yeah they can be pretty much anything you can imagine, so long as there's a reason for it. As far as the pudding's "reason" goes... I'm sure someone'll find it sooner or later. Ask an Australian

[jimmyBUFFET]

okay, here are my thoughts on the matter:

1. If you think this item MAY be useful in the future, then it's worth getting...this game has a long future ahead of it and it would be stupid to disregard something that will be so wholly unavailable when it IS useful just because you don't think it is NOW.

2. A lot of this game is so borked at higher levels because there simply aren't any high-level areas to go spend time in. Eventually, there will be places where a level 33 won't one-hit everything they come across, and at that point the benefits will most definitely outweigh the cost.

3. Let's face it, having new active players, at this point, is a good thing, and since a) donating money makes you less likely to stop playing and b) games are always more fun when you can do well right off the bat, a LE item that is mainly useful for lower level characters can be a wonderful tool for gathering both server money AND long-term players.

4. Keep in mind that a slew of holidays happen in this game and one of the features of these is scaled monsters. Resetting isn't necessary for testing this item, you just need to be patient and try it out once the scaled monsters come about. No need to waste all your effort just to see how often something drops...leave that to the people who ALREADY reset a lot.

5. Gobb, most of the people who know enough about the game to post on topics like this have already done a lot and most of us are indeed at high levels and cannot at the moment reap the benefits...basing any decisions based solely on this thread may end up hurting it in the long run...just keep that in mind, mate.

-jB

[Gobberwart]

Good feedback there Jimmy, thanks.

Something for everyone to bear in mind is that, even though the dev team is wholly responsible for writing, drawing, coding and administering this game, not one of us could even vaguely be considered to be an "expert" and we sometimes get things wrong, albeit with the best intentions. Human nature causes us to be defensive sometimes, but the fact is that we DO welcome feedback, even negative feedback, so long as it's well-considered and honest. Only through player feedback can we ever hope to learn anything and hopefully avoid making the same mistakes in future.

In this particular situation, a very small change to the way a part of this pet works would benefit higher-level players immediately, without in any way changing its usefulness to low-level characters, and would therefore make a not-insignificant number of people much happier with their purchase than they currently are. My inclination at this point is to say we'll probably tweak it accordingly, but I'm going to hold off a couple of days and see if anyone has anything further to add.

Anyone?

[invisible]

after getting the Item and playing with it I was surprised at how quickly I saw the food Items dropped.... my only real concern which me and Gobb talked about is with the fact that with Intensity not being Reset as a character resets will the damage the pudding causes in combat to great.... making this Item to powerful or not as useful as some are thinking for a stasis styled run... only time will tell

[Gobberwart]

Yeah, as we discussed though, this will change. Reset as it stands is pretty simple, but I would expect we'll see some fairly major changes to how that works as we near the beta mark.

[commandermack]

FYI,

Spoiler:

i have no real intention to use it during a stasis run... just wanted to clear that up... i plan to use it on a No Combat Attack Run. just wanted to clear that up. i dont know if anyone else mentioned stasis and pudding in the same sentence.

[invisible]

lol um ok mack... you da man for now

[invisible]

ok so I am in the middle of an all pudding run and let me say that this Item rocks in so many ways and will be a great investment in the future of the game....

It blocks like there is no tomorrow between it and the Infinite roll of TP I am pretty much untouchable and the damage out put on it is really nice so far and I am at only mid 20 intensity.... currently running 15+OL and killing stuff with my fist.... and letting the pudding just block and cause damage.....


but the best part is the 5 puddings where on par with eating 2 AHs and I didnt have to pay to pull the food..... So very much a bonus.... and it has made me relook at future runs and things I will try over the next few weeks......

also I am very suprised that I do not feel that I have lost much stat gains in not having the bath buddy use for the first whole day of the run

A very positive Item and something that I see as one day being a Run must against bosses in the game so It has my thumbs up.... If that means anything lol

grats to Ell ( I think Gobb said she wrote the item) for creating such an amazingly fun Item to play with....

[invisible]

the all pudding run is complete and over all it was a success at 368 turns eating pudding definitely made a different on turns wasted pulling AHs... the down side to the run is the lack of Item drop % which made the last two cards very hard to get even with a buddy on which is something I normally would not pull in a run.... the Plat seems to meet all my drop needs.... I will say that I was almost level 9 when facing legion and with normal runs I am usually high 7 or just level 8.... so you have to way those 20 turns gained by not pulling the 4 AHs I would have ate in place of pudding items.....

but over all it was a fun and interesting run and think that this item is something players will see much use out of in terms of possibility's and well worth the token spent as a game investment and if in the future as the game progresses if we have Hard Core style runs I think this Pet will be a staple to those types of runs

[Grokly]

Not only some really great feedback, but some tremendous analysis as well. Thank you, Invis.

[ElljaeT]

I would like to chime in with thanks for the thorough way you have examined the pudding and am glad you have found the benefits of its intention. Thanks invis

In keeping with what Gobb has said though, it still seems that it may be necessary to tweak the way in which the puddings drop so we are still keen to hear the thoughts of others.

[Cowboy]

I think that it should have a chance to drop pudding at the end of combat. I also think the chance to get it during combat rounds should be much higher than chance to get it at the end. I think this because it's hard to get puddings when you are too weak for one zone and too strong for another.

[invisible]

I give all this praise to the greatness of this item and no one has anything to say..... I would like to see more feedback from others who are using this pet and I think the Devs would appreciate the feed back

[commandermack]

/me has been using it quite a bit... seems to be a great attacking pet, but that is about it.

[Gobberwart]

I think the Devs would appreciate the feed back

Indeed. I'm still gathering feedback to see if any sort of change is required, but at this stage the answer appears to be... shrug.

At this stage, the drops occur sometimes if your pet successfully prevents your opponent from attacking, which means your opponent must at least have the CHANCE to attack. If you get initiative and kill your opponent in one round, then you're not going to get anything from it... unless you fumble.

If there's demand for it, it can be changed to drop whenever it activates (attack or block, which can still happen even if you one-hit-kill everything) or just randomly at the end of combat, but I need you to tell me what you'd like to see.

Cowboy, you can't have it both ways. If the item is changed to drop at the end of combat, it's not going to drop DURING combat as well.

Mack, you say it's a great attacking pet but that's about it. It is, there's no question about that, but you haven't mentioned the drops, and since that's what the discussion is about, your feedback isn't really helpful.

[Cowboy]

If there's demand for it, it can be changed to drop whenever it activates (attack or block, which can still happen even if you one-hit-kill everything) or just randomly at the end of combat, but I need you to tell me what you'd like to see.

Cowboy, you can't have it both ways. If the item is changed to drop at the end of combat, it's not going to drop DURING combat as well.

Fair enough, I'd like the first choice.

[commandermack]

Mack, you say it's a great attacking pet but that's about it. It is, there's no question about that, but you haven't mentioned the drops, and since that's what the discussion is about, your feedback isn't really helpful.

I thought the lack of mentioning it was the feedback. The drop rate is really bizarre, one day it takes 8 turns to get 5, the next it takes 120. Honestly... i can't comment solidly on anything other than the attack and blocking... doesn't block enough... attacks are super amazing... yeah... there.

[jimmyBUFFET]

Personally, I don't think anyone but speeders fight anything that takes more than 4 or 5 rounds of combat, and so most of us would probably be fine with it just dropping at the end of combat, and if it dropped during combat, well then that just ups the percentage of times it will drop, I believe...I think if the answer is a resounding 'i can't decide' it should fall on the question of whether the devs want it to drop an average of 10 times a day or 12...I really don't see the need for such a deep discussion on the subject. Anyway, continue as I watch from the sidelines and judge you all from afar.

-jB

[commandermack]

Ok, after close examination today... it attacks like every 3 rounds on average right now... and the pudding has only dropped 1 per 30 turns out of 60 so far...

I'd like to see the pudding drop rate increased and maybe in exchange lower the attack rate.

[invisible]

yea the drop rate is kinda strange Mack.... I was wondering if the drop rate on pudding or even lemonad is similar to the mechanic used in KOL for familiars like LLama Lama or Pixie where there is a % chance and every time you get one of these items your % chance goes down..... like from 50 to 10 as you obtain your 5 items.... any Devs or Gobb want to say...

[Gobberwart]

The drop rate's actually pretty simple, but it DOES require that your opponent attempt to attack you in some way so that the pudding can attempt to block. If the pudding blocks successfully, there's a percentage chance of dropping an item. Both the pudding's chance to block and chance of dropping an item on block are fixed, until of course you get your day's allowance... after which it's still fixed. At 0%

[commandermack]

yeah, just had like 10 round long combats for 30 turns or so where it wasn't blocking... it was silly. Thinking it triggered by round extention... but apparently you have to get lucky on getting lucky to get the pudding. Lucky that it blocks then lucky it drops... seems a bit of a stretch unless you get attacked every round, in which case, you probably get killed a lot with as little quest/zone content there is right now... How far exactly, LEVEL wise, do you plan to make the quest log go up to... lvl 7 is pretty low right now... so i know it is going a lot higher.

[Gobberwart]

yeah, just had like 10 round long combats for 30 turns or so where it wasn't blocking... it was silly. Thinking it triggered by round extention... but apparently you have to get lucky on getting lucky to get the pudding. Lucky that it blocks then lucky it drops...

Yep, that's how "random" works. Someone will come along and get 5 in 5 turns to make up for it. Aren't they lucky?

How far exactly, LEVEL wise, do you plan to make the quest log go up to... lvl 7 is pretty low right now... so i know it is going a lot higher.

Exactly? Dunno. Roughly? Ummm, let's say somewhere between 10 and 30. Ish. Yeah, that. Also... not relevant to this topic so shhh.

[Gobberwart]

Due to major code changes preventing me making any updates, it's taken longer than I'd have liked, but the pudding's item drop mechanic has been changed slightly. I hope it's fine for everyone now, because I'm not changing it again.

[commandermack]

lol :o